back from the doctor

[gusl]

Just got back from doctor.

I wrote my history on this problem chronologically, filling half a page, and took it with me. Service was quick: I waited only about 10 minutes. I was seen by a doctor at about 11:15am, when the blockage was much better, something like 80%L / 50%R (about the same as now). When I woke up, it had been something like 50%L/0%R.

I told him that 2 hours before I could hardly breathe (1/4 capacity), and was afraid of going back to sleep.
His response: "You won't die from it. You can breathe through your mouth."

Making no attempt to determine what was causing my blockage, he promptly gave me xylometazoline hydrochloride nose drops. It turns out that this stuff is only meant for colds, which I show no signs of having.
Then I was told that if I wanted to see an ENT doctor, then I would have to go the normal route, through my huisarts (GP). I will do this ASAP.

----

To fuel one's skepticism of doctors, Robin Hanson's "Fear of Death & Muddled Thinking: It Is So Much Worse than You Think" is brilliant. Hanson defends the idea that most medical care is a luxury, and is interested in phenomena of self-deception (and normal deception too).

----

Survey:
(1) when was the last time you visited a doctor?
(2a) when was the last time a doctor was useful to you? how many visits ago was that?

Now consult the oracle of counterfactuals, and ask him "what if I hadn't gone to the doctor that time?"
and answer
(2b) when was the last time a doctor was useful to you? how many visits ago was that?

what kind of help did you get?
* education/prevention
* told you what you had
* got a prescription that made the difference (did you already know what you needed?)
* surgery
* other?

Comments

[smandal.livejournal.com]

Medical care is only useful if the doctor knows more than you, and is willing to think critically. Usually, this only happens if you have a serious condition or the condition has to do with a complex body part or system.

The only doctors that have impressed me with their acumen are in research, surgery or a difficult specialty (e.g, oncology).

ENT

[neurogirl.livejournal.com]

At first I thought you were wanting to see an (E)xtroverted i(N)tuitive (T)hinking doctor...now I see it's Ear, Nose, & Throat ;)

Survey:

1. Six months ago
2a. Six months ago. Last visit

2b. Six months ago. Last visit

Help:

Education, told what I had & even thought I was nuts for checking on the problem since I'm healthy otherwise (I was paying out of pocket).

Re: ENT

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

What are you?

I can definitely see you being an E**J.

Re: ENT

[neurogirl.livejournal.com]

I think I only look like an E around other Introverts. Recently I've tested as an INFJ...but I'm pretty balanced across the NF.

Re: ENT

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

I was right about the NF too! I wasn't as sure, that's why I didn't say it.

Now it makes more sense that you reminded me of darkjewelz!

Perhaps you're a very slight & socially successful "I", which makes you look like an "E".

Re: ENT

[neurogirl.livejournal.com]

You'd have to tell me more about this darkjewelz person as I didn't see much of a connection...but LJ is quite different than real life ;)

~Perhaps you're a very slight & socially successful "I", which makes you look like an "E".~

Again, I'd agree with this...being around other introverts. However, put me in with the extroverts and I'm cowering in a corner ;)

Re: ENT

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't see your interests overlapping very much , but I did sense something similar... maybe your way of relating. To be honest, I don't remember why anymore, I just remember that at the time I met you, you reminded me of her.

Maybe it's that I don't meet that many interesting women, so when I do, it's natural for me to lump them together. :-) You can't have many boxes when the sample is small.

(Btw, I think this was made a big mistake socially: no good can come out of telling people that they remind you of somebody else!)

[jbouwens.livejournal.com]

To fuel one's skepticism of doctors

Imagine doctor's skepticism of patients. Something like 90% of people seeking medical attention do not actually need it. People are over-sensitive to even the most innocent of symptoms, and demand immediate treatment and relief, which is something doctors simply can't provide.

To answer your questions:

1) Something like 3-4 months ago

2a/b) That same last time I went. I had a mild but persistent headache (persistent meaning several months). The huisarts couldn't find anything alarming or serious, and prescribed anti-inflammation medication for lack of something better. These worked well. The pain subsided after a week or so and didn't come back. If I hadn't gone, perhaps the pain would have gone by itself, but perhaps not. No way to know.

[jbouwens.livejournal.com]

BTW: A side-effect from being born with a cleft palate is that I have blocked nasal passages all the time. As with you, the blockage goes up and down, so this proves your doctor is right about one thing: You won't die from it :).

When I was younger I breathed through my mouth all the time. I actually had to consciously teach to breathe through my nose. I can do this most of the time now, but when I sleep my mouth is always open. I often wonder what, if any, effect this has on my life expectancy, as the nose acts as a dust filter for your lungs. I can imagine I will develop some sort of lung-ailment in the future because of this.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

I also had to teach myself to breathe through my nose, because I really long periods breathing through my mouth as a child.

But what if you're sleeping with your mouth closed? Do you open instinctively while sleeping?

Do people wake up if you close their nose and mouth?

[jbouwens.livejournal.com]

But what if you're sleeping with your mouth closed? Do you open instinctively while sleeping?

When my muscles relax, my mouth simply drops open.

Do people wake up if you close their nose and mouth?

Eh, yes, they do. No being able to breathe is a pretty immediate emergency, so the body reacts strongly.

[candid.livejournal.com]

I went to the knee doctor about a month ago. He took some X-rays (which I wanted done) but after they came back negative he was useless.

My podiatrist is always useful to me, because he removes ingrown toenails.

My ENT doctor was useful because he prescribed me Flonase, which I now swear by.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I happen to have Flixonase, and just put the little bottle in front of me.

Is your problem caused by colds, asthma, allergies, hyperreactivity or other? (check all that apply)

How does Flonase work for you? Does it ...
(a) soften mucus?
(b) eliminate excess mucus production?
(c) unswell swollen tissues?
(d) other?

Does Flonase provide immediate relief for you, or does it take a few minutes / hours / days?

When you use Flonase, does it get both of your nostrils 100% free?

[brkvw.livejournal.com]

1: Do you include chiropractors? A few days ago then. Otherwise, about a year ago, I was hit by a horse, and was finishing up my last visits.

2: Chiro: Yes, I have greater mobility, and less pain. Otherwise, no doctor has ever really been directly useful to me, other than to identify the right drug to stop a pain, although my guesses were correct. I have gotten blood poisoning several times, that about covers it.

I have had surgery, wisdom teeth out, vasectomy. I can afford full medical coverage, plus I add onto this that I pay out of my own pocket for even more comforts. Where standard medicine will not use an anesthesiologist, I provide my own.

I view doctors as the second opinion to my own.

However, and this needs to be stressed here, most people are…well, average. 100 IQ. Observing this, I can see that these sheeple, er, people, will not recognize ailments they could cure themselves.

This alone may explain why we are living longer. Normal people are simply as part of process…getting help they would otherwise not have gotten. Nothing more, nothing less.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

Did you write about the horse incident somewhere? Chiropractic treatment sounds interesting, even if the mechanisms are not clear.

Re: vasectomy. Lifestyle choice?
Re: blood poisoning. Scary! How did that happen, and why so many times?

Hanson seems to argue, from results of controlled studies, that medical care is hardly ever useful, and that it's truly puzzling why people are living longer.

[jbouwens.livejournal.com]

that medical care is hardly ever useful,

He probably did his research in Western countries then.

and that it's truly puzzling why people are living longer.

Anti-biotics and vaccinations are probably among the biggest factors there. People used to die from things like TBC and pneumonia which, are relatively easy to treat nowadays, and Diphteria, Tetanus, Polio and all those other things kids get vaccinated against.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, but I've learned not to underestimate Robin Hanson. Those explanations seem pretty simple and common sense... so if it's that easy, he would agree with us, and yet he doesn't.

[brkvw.livejournal.com]

I agree as well. I consider this part of "Normal people are simply as part of process…getting help they would otherwise not have gotten."

If we knock off 20 (to pick a random number) items that once killed people, this could show a huge increase in lifespan (or free people to live longer).

But if one considers that there was a time in history where a nasty cough was cured with…"more whiskey" then that trip to the doctor became really important.

[brkvw.livejournal.com]

Horse: http://joyjoycafe.com/Blog/2004/O201.html

Chiropractic. Simple, (even if they don't admit it), the body locks down the vertebrae around nerves to protect them, manual manipulation forces them to get moving again before they would normally (normally being "rest" I would guess).

Vasectomy: Yes, have no interest in children.

Blood: I learned I have a strong reaction to the vain in shrimp (which is actually their intestine). I now visually inspect shrimp that I eat one by one, and never eat things where the shrimp is mixed with other things (like soup). Have not had a problem since.

Hanson: Yeah, I read the paper, but his conclusions seemed Opinion. In other words he sites research, but the research does not declare his conclusion.

Sort of like talking about cops that die from attacks on the job, and breaking it down into Knife, Gun, and Vehicular deaths. But ignoring the fact that “being a cop" is what actually gets you killed in these situations.

[amoken.livejournal.com]

(1) when was the last time you visited a doctor?
gyn: January 2003
doc: August 2001
dent: June 1998

(2a) when was the last time a doctor was useful to you? how many visits ago was that?
Every time I've gone since 1998 has been necessary, else I wouldn't have gone.

Now consult the oracle of counterfactuals, and ask him "what if I hadn't gone to the doctor that time?"
and answer
(2b) when was the last time a doctor was useful to you? how many visits ago was that?
Same.

what kind of help did you get?
* education/prevention
Gyn, Doc
* told you what you had
Doc
* got a prescription that made the difference (did you already know what you needed?)
Gyn: the prescription was the purpose of my visit, and it was unrelated to the education part, Doc: no I didn't know what I needed, but I could barely breathe let alone think