"both"

[gusl]

The word "both" has two distinct meanings that I'm aware of:

(a) if you want to express "P(A) and P(B)" for some predicate P, one says "both A and B P" (if A,B are subjects) or "P both A and B" (if A,B are objects).
e.g.

<< On the third day, both groups successfully recalled the link between the shock and the spider. >>

(b) A ~ B, where ~ is an equivalence relation.
e.g.:

<< On the third day, both groups remembered the link between the shock and the spider equally well >>

I really dislike usage (b), and I'd recommend using "the two" instead. It feels so wrong that I was unable to generate an example myself, and had to find the webpage again.

---

UPDATE: a curious variant of (b) is "both equally as".

Comments

[hykue.livejournal.com]

you know, of the two usages, (b) feels more natural to me.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

Let me give an example of usage (a):

<< On the third day, both groups successfully recalled the link between the shock and the spider. >>

[hykue.livejournal.com]

there doesn't seem to be much difference to me, but I can see how you'd prefer "the two" in the second one. It does seem to flow better.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

It's not the flow. It's just that "they are both equal" feels wrong to me: it's expressing just one statement relating the two entities, whereas I expect the word "both" to express *two* statements that are identical except for the entity it applies to.

[hykue.livejournal.com]

I see. I don't really think about it that much. If it sounds right then I'm happy with it :)

[fancybred.livejournal.com]

I don't understand, what's the general form of usage (b)? Is it always "both ... equally well"? If so, maybe equally well is the weird part...it feels kind of like same, which is also weird.

[gustavolacerda.livejournal.com]

you also see "both equally important".

[selfishgene.livejournal.com]

As a native English speaker I find both the two statements equally comprehensible and valid.