Gustavo Lacerda

I find it a bit surprising that less than 1/3 of the women, all of whom did not want children (and were going out of their way not to get pregnant), rejected legal abortion.

That's not at all surprising! I know several women (My girlfriend being one) who are absolutely trying not to get pregnant by using birth control, yet are also clear that SHOULD they get pregnant, they won't get an abortion.

Besides, even if a woman says in advance she would get an abortion, actually getting pregnant start a hormonal chaos that severely influences everything, including the decision-making process.

An ex-girlfriend of mine had an abortion (years before she and I met), and she told me she'd never do it again. No matter how much she didn't want to be pregnant, it was an intensely emotional event.

Something I'd be interested in knowing: What % of women get more than one abortion?

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selfishgene.livejournal.com

Steve Sailer argues that legalizing abortions actually increased the number of unwanted births. His reasoning is, that prior to the fact, woman take fewer precautions against conception. After they are pregnant however, they are less inclined to get an abortion than they expected to be.

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That's the argument that women start seeing abortion as some sort of birth control. But in my experience, women know very well abortion is a last-resort.

Still, he's probably right. No reason not to legalize abortions though.

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selfishgene.livejournal.com

I'm not against legalized abortions, but some people advance false/unproven reasons for their positions. Sailer (usually) sticks to carefully examining published statistics.

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Quite often in discussions, the facts are not disputed. Likewise here: It's very well possible the number of unwanted births increases when abortion is legal. Even assumed it is, then that does not automatically mean abortion should not be legal.

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qamar.livejournal.com

Something I'd be interested in knowing: What % of women get more than one abortion?

*nods* I think attitudes can be shifted after the actual experience of abortion, rather than the theory. If guys think that getting a swab up their urethra is unpleasant for an STD test, then they would probably freak out at an abortion.

I wonder whether trends play a role in this, regardless of abortion legality. For example, women's magazines are *full* of pregnant celebrities. Perhaps motherhood is become fashionable again. Thus, even if you don't plan to get pregnant (i.e. use contraception), if you do get pregnant, the decision to keep it may be influenced by your surrounding culture and whether you feel you'll be supported bringing a child to term.

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I've gone directly from saying hey lets use condoms to:

Put this on, I don't want an abortion. It is much more effective in getting guys to wear a condom.

When I'm in a relationship I like to use condoms AND be on the pill.

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When I'm in a relationship I like to use condoms AND be on the pill.

When I'm in a relationship, I push for an STD test as soon as possible. When it comes back negative, we can ditch the condoms.

That's assuming she is willing to stay on the pill of course. I once had a girlfriend who refused to take the pill, because it messed with her body and mind. Condoms were the only option then, unfortunately :(.

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I still request STD tests and prefer condoms AND the pill for at least 6 months. Most of my relationships however don't make it that far. I'm too much of a pain in the ass.

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So more often than not, you're in the position of dumpee? Or is this your non-arrogant way of saying that nobody has been good enough for you? (6 months being usually more than enough time to tell)

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I still request STD tests and prefer condoms AND the pill for at least 6 months.

Condoms are a pain though. Don't get me wrong, I'd never NOT use one for that reason, but if the other person hasn't been partying wildly in the months before meeting me, I'll settle for a single test.

Most of my relationships however don't make it that far. I'm too much of a pain in the ass.

Haha, I'll take your word for it.

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When I was younger, I would have had an abortion if I got pregnant. Now I probably still might, but it is significantly lesss likely. (As in I'd really rather keep it, even though I don't want one now)

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And if it were to happen by accident, would you demand financial responsibility from the father? Legally, men don't have a choice in this matter, and we don't see pro-choicers complaining about that.

In any case, it's something to discuss everytime you have sex with anyone. "But *if* it were to happen, you have a big debt to me" (what a turnoff!)

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In an ideal world, if someone isn't ready to have a kid, they shouldn't be having sex, ESPECIALLY unprotected. Obviously it happens all the time.

Its an interesting and sticky question, especially because it is sooo difficult (from what I've heard) for women to have an abortion emotionally, the more you want kids yourself. I think the responsibility is equal and implied because it takes two to make a baby. If he does not want that responsibility, knowing that it is legally his, he should not stick his dick into a vagina until he accepts that risk. I have a lot of different conflicting opinions.

Some women think that it is their choice alone, but what if the man were willing to take and raise the child on his own? Does he get a say?

My father once had a conversation with a woman whose intial response was no, the man does not get a say. Until they agreed upon some sum of money that would be required to be set aside for the child so she knew she would not have to be responsible for it. Then he tells her, so, now that we've established its just a matter of price, lets negotiate.

Point of fact, pregnancy is hard on the body, and from what i've been hearing from my friends, its hard on the stability feelings too. I am going to take a cop out and say every situation is different.

As far as pro-choicers go, one of the things I don't like about feminism is that it has degraded the role of home-maker. It should be an acceptable choice for a woman if that is what she and he partner choose.

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Some women think that it is their choice alone, but what if the man were willing to take and raise the child on his own? Does he get a say?

I'd like to see a case where a single dad sues the child's mother for the alimony. Is this legally possible?

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Yes it is. Especially if the dad has legal and phsycial custody of the child. AND the woman was making more money than he was prior to the divorce.

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he's lying! I'm not the mother!

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Point of fact, pregnancy is hard on the body, and from what i've been hearing from my friends, its hard on the stability feelings too
As in, the mom's life becomes unstable? My naïve intuition was precisely the opposite.
Surely you don't mean that the relationship becomes unstable?

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