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guslA lot of people, especially in America, assume I'm hispanic and talk to me in Spanish. I find this very annoying. It's not just me, it's most lusophones.
It's about the same kind of effect you would get if you speak German to a Dutchman, or Arabic to a Persian. It's being mistaken for the people who are sort of "our rivals" (mostly jokingly), due to them being linguistically and culturally somewhat similar to us, but different enough to be (mostly jokingly, again) annoying if interpreted within the culture. (A northern American may find the southern speech annoying, but that's only because he understands it enough)
A related pet peeve is being labeled "Hispanic". First of all, it's used as a racial category, which makes no sense as such. I have evidence of Latin-American societies trying to gerrymander Brazilians into the category (MIT's SHPE comes to mind).
Twice, I've been labeled "Hispanic", both times by police officers. The first time it was a simple "H" in the race box. Two weeks ago, I was extensively described as "WHITE HISPANIC", upon filing my hit-and-run complaint. Neither time did they consult me.
Then again, sometimes people ask, but I'm not happier.
People have asked me my race for all kinds of forms, and I always tell them: "You tell me! Why should I have to label myself, let alone according to your system?"
I've never seen a need for labeling people by race, except in the case a physical description is necessary, but even for that purpose, it's terribly uninformative by itself.
"The lie of multiculturalism is partly illustrated by the actions of Brazilian immigrants in the United States (see Margolis 1994). The Brazilians have deliberately tried to make it clear to Americans that they are not Hispanics. (Even though many Brazilian-Americans and Brazilian immigrants speak Spanish learned by working with Hispanics in lower level jobs.) Nor do the Brazilians like to use the term Latinos. They know that Hispanics face a lot of prejudice in the United States, and so they do not want to be thought of as Hispanic or Latino. They want to be thought of as Brazilians. This, of course, hurts Hispanic efforts at political unity. What's important is to recognize the natural selfishness of groups and try to work with this knowledge rather than to try to pretend the selfishness does not exist (or is only the result of some rich buissnessmen using divisive advertisements). This selfish behavior just shows how, in a racist society, every group is guilty of a bit of racism and the overall system has to be dealt with instead of just focusing on the racism of the whites."
Good observations, bad explanations:
The simplest explanation for the fact that Brazilians don't consider themselves "Hispanic" is a simple law of social groups: it is *language*, not geography, that determines ethnic (meaning "cultural") identity (kind of a universal principle, really). The fact the Brazilians have been attracted to Portuguese ghettos such as Newark, Framingham and Somerville, instead of "Hispanic" ghettos such as Jamaica Plain should be enough evidence for that.
Anyway, back to the language issue. While Portuguese vowels are pronounced somewhat like Spanish, the consonants are definitely closer to French. Most notably the "j", followed by the "ch".
Now practice:
"j" = [zh] "O jagunço japonês já jogou o jarro pela janela."
(the japanese henchman already threw the jar out the window)
"ch" = [sh] "A chave chata chegou na machado da tocha do chibungo chapado."
(the flat key arrived in the axe of the torch of the stoned asshole) (hey, we're not talking about semantics, are we?)
"v" = [v] (never [b]) "O velho valente viu que a leve verdade da vida vale a pena ver" (the brave old man saw that the light truth of life is worth seeing)
V"s"V = V[z]V, "A asa do besouro que pousou na casa do casal tesudo."
(the wing of the insect that landed in the house of the horny couple)
"ão" = [ãu] "ladrão que rouba ladrão tem cem anos de perdão."
(thief who steals from thief gets 100 years of forgiveness) (I call it "The Bureaucrat's Motto")
If you respect these rules, you will probably be understood without much effort, and not hated for pronouncing the "j" like the Spanish do. That should be your first priority!
It's about the same kind of effect you would get if you speak German to a Dutchman, or Arabic to a Persian. It's being mistaken for the people who are sort of "our rivals" (mostly jokingly), due to them being linguistically and culturally somewhat similar to us, but different enough to be (mostly jokingly, again) annoying if interpreted within the culture. (A northern American may find the southern speech annoying, but that's only because he understands it enough)
A related pet peeve is being labeled "Hispanic". First of all, it's used as a racial category, which makes no sense as such. I have evidence of Latin-American societies trying to gerrymander Brazilians into the category (MIT's SHPE comes to mind).
Twice, I've been labeled "Hispanic", both times by police officers. The first time it was a simple "H" in the race box. Two weeks ago, I was extensively described as "WHITE HISPANIC", upon filing my hit-and-run complaint. Neither time did they consult me.
Then again, sometimes people ask, but I'm not happier.
People have asked me my race for all kinds of forms, and I always tell them: "You tell me! Why should I have to label myself, let alone according to your system?"
I've never seen a need for labeling people by race, except in the case a physical description is necessary, but even for that purpose, it's terribly uninformative by itself.
"The lie of multiculturalism is partly illustrated by the actions of Brazilian immigrants in the United States (see Margolis 1994). The Brazilians have deliberately tried to make it clear to Americans that they are not Hispanics. (Even though many Brazilian-Americans and Brazilian immigrants speak Spanish learned by working with Hispanics in lower level jobs.) Nor do the Brazilians like to use the term Latinos. They know that Hispanics face a lot of prejudice in the United States, and so they do not want to be thought of as Hispanic or Latino. They want to be thought of as Brazilians. This, of course, hurts Hispanic efforts at political unity. What's important is to recognize the natural selfishness of groups and try to work with this knowledge rather than to try to pretend the selfishness does not exist (or is only the result of some rich buissnessmen using divisive advertisements). This selfish behavior just shows how, in a racist society, every group is guilty of a bit of racism and the overall system has to be dealt with instead of just focusing on the racism of the whites."
Good observations, bad explanations:
The simplest explanation for the fact that Brazilians don't consider themselves "Hispanic" is a simple law of social groups: it is *language*, not geography, that determines ethnic (meaning "cultural") identity (kind of a universal principle, really). The fact the Brazilians have been attracted to Portuguese ghettos such as Newark, Framingham and Somerville, instead of "Hispanic" ghettos such as Jamaica Plain should be enough evidence for that.
Anyway, back to the language issue. While Portuguese vowels are pronounced somewhat like Spanish, the consonants are definitely closer to French. Most notably the "j", followed by the "ch".
Now practice:
"j" = [zh] "O jagunço japonês já jogou o jarro pela janela."
(the japanese henchman already threw the jar out the window)
"ch" = [sh] "A chave chata chegou na machado da tocha do chibungo chapado."
(the flat key arrived in the axe of the torch of the stoned asshole) (hey, we're not talking about semantics, are we?)
"v" = [v] (never [b]) "O velho valente viu que a leve verdade da vida vale a pena ver" (the brave old man saw that the light truth of life is worth seeing)
V"s"V = V[z]V, "A asa do besouro que pousou na casa do casal tesudo."
(the wing of the insect that landed in the house of the horny couple)
"ão" = [ãu] "ladrão que rouba ladrão tem cem anos de perdão."
(thief who steals from thief gets 100 years of forgiveness) (I call it "The Bureaucrat's Motto")
If you respect these rules, you will probably be understood without much effort, and not hated for pronouncing the "j" like the Spanish do. That should be your first priority!
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-06 09:24 am (UTC)if it makes you feel any better, people are CONSTANTLY asking me what my ethnic background is. seriously, some random person will walk up to me about once a week, on average, and ask. people have thought i was everything from hispanic to greek to russian to french to middle-eastern. but no one has ever guessed correctly :p i just tell people i'm human.
Re:
Date: 2003-03-06 09:53 am (UTC)But a lot of people have asked me if I was Arabic, Italian, and French (from my accent). Spanish for some reason, isn't asked: it's assumed.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-06 04:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-06 03:54 pm (UTC)The rant about bureaucrats asking which box I fit into is a different story.
WHAT are you man?!?!?!
My point and I do have one..... I AM a LIGHT skinned (we have the same features you and I...kinda) latino, hispanic, american of mexican decent, chicano... white hispanic... (NOW before you cringe GUSTAVO) I do not affiliate myself with this community... nor do I embrace *labeling....
however... you have to understand... that the UNITED STATES of AMERICA is run by *STUPID WHITE MEN...(see book by Michael Moore... www.michaelmoore.com) and they use cultural diversity as a smoke screen to cover all the rampant racism.
Until somebody see's my last name.... I keep getting ..."What are you?!?!? are you italian, jewish, persian, anglo-saxon, french, SPANISH...coz there is no way you have mexican blood... you don't look like an AZTEC or MAYAN INDIAN!?!?!"
that used to get on my last nerve...but you will see as you get older... you just don't give a flying rats ass no more!
sending greetings , salutations and hugs from dallas!